Name: The Hidden Value in Your Grantmaking: How Data and Processes Can Become Knowledge Assets
Uploaded: 2025-06-26T16:30:10.373Z
Duration: 1 h 30 min 4 s
Description: The Hidden Value in Your Grantmaking: How Data and Processes Can Become Knowledge Assets

Transcript for "The Hidden Value in Your Grantmaking: How Data and Processes Can Become Knowledge Assets": Okay. So, hey, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Blackbaud Grantmaking's twenty twenty five thought leadership webinar series. We'll begin here in just a few moments, but I just wanted to go over a few housekeeping items while everyone is getting a chance to get logged in. So the webinar audio will be broadcasted through your computer speakers, so hopefully you can all hear me. If you need captions, you can hover over the stage, click the cc button on the bottom of the screen to turn captions on and off. If you encounter any audio or technical issues such as the slides freezing, usually a quick refresh of your browser is the best way to get it working again. Worst case scenario, you can leave the system and log in again. That usually solves most of the issues. So for q and a, there is a q and a tab on the top right of your screen to submit any questions that you have. Feel free to submit those questions throughout the presentation, and, we are going to allocate ten minutes at the end to answer any of the questions you guys have, but feel free to just add them in as they come to mind. And you should also see a resources tab or it's called a docs tab, which has access to several links that you may wanna access during the presentation and save for future reference. You can also adjust any of your settings by using the cogwheel at the bottom of the event space. And just to know, I do like to say this off the top that you will receive a recording of the presentation. So don't feel like you have to ferociously take notes or anything like that because, we will be sending you that recording as well. So welcome everyone to today's presentation, the hidden value in your grant making, how data and processes can become knowledge assets. And we have Angela Frishante here today, and I will be introducing her in just a moment after I get to, get through some of these intro slides. So a quick introduction on my part. So my name is Nicole. I'm part of the grant making marketing team here at Blackbaud. Really excited to be here today with you all. If you have attended any of these thought leadership webinars in the past, you may notice that I look a little a little different than Ray who is our normal presenter for these for this webinar series. So I'll be stepping in for him today while he's on a much deserved vacation to Cartagena. And I'll be intro introducing the folks that you really want to hear from shortly. So just a quick introduction to Blackbaud for those of you who aren't familiar with us. Blackbaud is the world's leading cloud software company powering social impact, and last year we celebrated our fortieth anniversary. We serve nonprofits, educational institutions, local governments, and other entities across the social impact sector by providing tailored solutions designed for the needs of non commercial organizations. We offer software, technology services, data intelligence, and expertise across all of our solutions, which range from financial management to friend fundraising, and, of course, our sponsor solution for today's webinar, Blackbaud grant making. So your organization may be managing your grant making efforts in a variety of different ways. Maybe you're using manual spreadsheets, paper based review processes, you could be using multiple software systems to accomplish your daily tasks as a grant maker. So Blackbaud grant making is really built on a powerful core that integrates all of these components you need to successfully reach your giving mission into one streamlined solution. Our modern secure technology industry leading reporting and tailored design means your daily experience is efficient and simplified. You don't need to worry about clunky design or navigating through features you won't use. And I also wanted to let you know that one of our reps, Nate, is on the line today as well, and he's ready to message with you. He's here to answer any sales specific questions, further understand the pain points you're currently experiencing and how Blackbaud can help. So just speaking with him is really easy. You can search for him if you go to messages. He's here as an attendee, and you can also use his link to schedule a five to ten minute chat. So he's here to help. He can get you connected with an account executive for next steps as quickly as the next business day. So, yeah, he's on the line ready to help out today. And I'm going to go ahead and pass the ball to our presenter today, who you're really here for. So here is Angela Frishante, and she is going to give you, a little bit of an intro on herself, and I'll pass it to you, Angela. Great. Thank you, Nicole, and thanks everyone for being here, this morning. And, as Nicole said, we're gonna be talking about kind of what is the value that's hidden inside your grant making, and the ways that you can maximize what, well, what we do on every day in order to create knowledge assets. Let me start by saying a little bit about how I enter into the work, so that you know the perspective that I'm coming from and, encourage you to think about kind of how you're entering this, topic. There are so many entry points, job descriptions, activities, titles, lot of, roles that touch knowledge work. So, you know, kind of feel free to locate yourself and also to enter into the chat kinda where you're coming from today in terms of your geographic region or your organization. So I am Angela Frusciante. I am a white woman. I use she, her pronouns. I have olive skin given to me from my Italian ancestors and shoulder length curly, almost black hair, black shirt, and a pop of color, of red in my glasses and my jewelry. And I will you'll notice I'll be looking down and reading some of my notes because there's a lot to get through today in a relatively short time. So, bear with me on that, but we will have time, as Nicole said, for questions at the end. So I'm the founder and principal of Knowledge Designs to Change, and I bring about thirty years now experience in working in knowledge building under various titles and activities. So sometimes called research, sometimes called evaluation, sometimes shared inquiry, but all based on knowledge work and mostly, probably almost all, in the nonprofit and profit and philanthropic sectors. So I've worked inside community nonprofit settings, inside academia, and a lot in university community foundation partnerships. That's a mouthful. And also probably most applicable to here in this conversation is I worked inside a family foundation. I was one of the first people to have a knowledge development title at a foundation, and as that term was just being introduced, it's a lot more, kind of seen now. But at that time, we we were new and we're figuring it out. Now as an independent partner, I kind I get to work across, with colleagues in various settings, which is really exciting, for me. And much of my energy and passion is around supporting grantmakers and their grantees. Right? And specifically in social change efforts. Right? What we're trying to do together out in the world. You can certainly read more about me in my background at my website. And like I said, I'm happy to answer questions later. And I'm gonna try to remember to move the slide. Okay. So I want to, talk a little bit and about the ideas of urgency and opportunity and what bring kind of why this conversation right now. So as we all know, the world is shifting in many ways, sometimes unexpected, sometimes overwhelming, sometimes scary. At least that's how I'm experiencing it. We all know that there are stressors on communities and on nonprofits and on foundations themselves. Right? It's it we're not, removed from it all. And we're always trying to figure out how to shift, how to adapt, and also to continue to show up in positive ways. And I hear from colleagues, particularly now as there's been more federal cuts in funding, that that is pushing even more demand onto private foundations in particular. And the larger nonprofits that might have been kind of sustained through, grants with the government are now seeking private grants to try to replace those funds. In the context of all of this, the conversation kind of what it means to me is that change efforts need even more attention from foundations, And we need to focus that attention in ways that certainly are about today and the real needs of today, and also about envisioning kind of what communities and the sector and even I know I go big with this, even democracy will look like in the coming years. So this applies to funders who, of course, may be large and have their own research evaluation learning departments, but even more so I think to those grantmakers who do not. So I believe that, you know, lean funders and as I'm hearing, that's the the term of affection right now, that lean funders have some very unique opportunities. Because from kind of where I said they tend to be close to their geographic communities. They also lead funders tend to have passion for and commitment to kind of, specific issue areas. And therefore, they follow those very closely, whether that's education or food security, homelessness, whatever the issue may be. And they often off also have the flexibility to act more quickly on what they're learning. So just wanna note that what I'm sharing today can go across the size of foundation and the type of foundation, and yet I really had foundations with certain characteristics in mind. And those were the kind of proximity to community, the focus, and the flexibility. So my bias is to start with the work we're already doing and creatively maximize from there. So I'd like to ask for Nicole's help, or she's already got it up there, to, do a poll and see what approaches you're currently using. We'll take just a few seconds for that. Okay. Okay. And feel free, if you do have another term, again, to, put that into the chat if you'd like to share. Right now, it seems that, you know, there are some people who don't yet have targeted ways, and that's okay. We always start from where we are. Storytelling, measurement learning, and evaluation are showing up, and, of course, impact reporting. We know there's a lot of conversation about how to do impact reporting, how to do it better, and we can touch on touch on some of that too. Okay. So great. Thank you for that. And we'll have a couple other polls as we go on along just to touch base kinda with how you're reacting to the information as well. So let's get practical. Right? Three upfront notes. Again, as I mentioned, everything that I'm gonna share today that I'm sharing today that we're talking about today can be applied regardless of size, issue, area, or even how much you're investing in knowledge building. Right? So for some people, that is a specific investment, if there's a specific role or activity. And for others, it's incorporated in your current in your job description. So it's not something that is, kind of a separate line in in the planning or in your budget. This applies across the board. Everything I share is about maximizing. So I push myself, even when working in philanthropy, not to think that everything has to start as new. Right? I'm gonna air quote the new. There's a lot that we can do. I mean, we're always moving forward. Right? It's it's not brand new. And I wanna note though that this presentation is not about AI. I'm kind of a reluctant skeptic on AI. But I do believe that that when we're talking about knowledge building, it's even more important to talk about that in the context of AI. And I'm gonna try to deemphasize jargon, and you can call me and check me on that later. Tell me how how well I did. So my intention is that, like, we in this conversation, we come to figure out that entering into and expanding, or expanding research activities does not have to be daunting, overwhelming, or expensive. And the key is to start with the processes and data that are already inside our grant making processes. How do we do that? So if we need to be definitional at all, and I don't like big definitions because we're constantly creating them. But, here is the place where I think we need to focus. We live in an information society. It's coming information is coming at us all the time, and it's easy to feel overloaded, overwhelmed, inundated. That's normal. So the first step in trying to grasp some of that is to be intentional intentional in differentiating. And what helps us to recognize and embrace, the idea. Right? What helps us to embrace the idea that information is not data, and it's really again, everything that's coming at us, that can come from surveys. It can come from social media. It can come from the news. And there's a lot coming at us from the news all the time. But that's all just information. And the other thing is is that data is not automatically knowledge. So if we go from information, what I call data making, is when we connect information to a question and to a way of interpreting it. And then very importantly, knowledge is not something that just sits on the shelf. Right? It's not a report that we that we store away. Knowledge emerges through action. So it actually happens when we engage with the data, and we allow that data to change how we do things, how we see things, how we understand. So with that as the base kind of differentiation and definition, if you will, what are the keys to creating knowledge assets? So I believe there's four and then a fifth that's kind of overarching. And as an overview, we're gonna tap into each of these with some examples. When we talk about rigor, we're talking about I'm talking about reframing research as knowledge building. Talking about alignment is about really connecting to your grant making approach. The notion of mapping is looking at grant making process with the lens of what are the questions and the curiosity within the work we are doing every day. What are those touch points in our process where we can be about data? When I talk about partnering, here I'm acknowledging, of course, our grantees and stakeholders. I'm not gonna talk too much about that engagement today, but here I'm emphasizing how we make sure we are supported as grantmakers in the methods we use, and how do we do knowledge building. And then again, that fifth is fifth is the grounding or overarching. It's the strategies and the values and the check, if you will, on all the others to confirm that what we're doing means something, that it matters. So I'm gonna touch on each of these. I also wanna note, again, there's a lot to get through. But, as Nicole mentioned, there's documents, there's resources, and there's a tip sheet actually that's specifically connected to this material. So feel free to tap into that if you wanna dive in further. Okay. So when we talk about research, it is common to hear the term rigor. Traditionally, that term has applied to big data, kind of statistical significance. The idea of having a mathematical formula that in some way can tell us that something is right, that something is true, that something is predictable. When we reframe research activities as knowledge building, some really important things happen. One thing is that we start to really respect the data that emerges from grant making itself. So, definitely, there are times we tap into census data or government data or large scale studies, But grant making data is different. We find it in our systems and in our reporting. We find it inside what grantees are sharing about their work. We find it in what we're, how we're engaging and what we're sharing with colleagues every day. And so I mentioned having the title of knowledge development officer. And this happened this was a moment in a family foundation that had done third party evaluation for years to inform their grant making. So they were already doing, and listening and engaging and bringing information to their board. And then they decided to incorporate knowledge development as a role, initially, to manage all the evaluation and to do other things like writing best practices. But one of the most important things that I saw in reframing as knowledge work was that it actually opened up a lot of creativity to see where knowledge building could happen outside of traditional evaluation. So they didn't throw away evaluation at all. But we got really creative about, kind of what that reframing meant. And we it caused us to be innovative about how we engage with community leaders in issues of access and, kind of knowledge development. We got to see what the foundation used, to talk at what when they used to talk about evaluation, kinda what was really about evaluation and what was more about sharing and archiving and being transparent. We did some really cool work around being transparent and sharing the decisions that the foundation was making. And we also got to be specific and clear about what what were the important questions and data that could deepen our understandings and importantly deepen understandings in actionable ways. So when we're talking about knowledge work, we're not talking about old school rigor. We're talking about trustworthiness. And that means that quality itself is about being intentional. Intentional about data processes, systematic in following those processes, and really transparent about sharing who is involved in the research decisions, how foundation is using and being accountable to those processes, and what concepts and frameworks the foundation is using to interpret and hopefully in collaboration with others. But what are those frameworks that say what it all means? And on that last point, trustworthiness is importantly about being ethical about lived experience, which means brings us to our relationship with organizations and the people that we work with. That could be a whole session by itself. I will talk a little bit more about it. We talk about partnerships. But just that notion of when we talk about trustworthiness, it really prompts us to ask those key questions about working with whom. So alignment. Aligning knowledge building with grant focus and approach. So I have a great opportunity to partner on research with a place but based funding project that combined grants and capacity building and leadership development around whole systems change, that notion. And we co created a shared inquiry project with a group of change makers. Our goal was to make change work visible. They were really challenged by surfacing and articulating kind of how their work was happening and what they were experiencing in the change work within within their community and with, the communities they were working with. The most important part of the inquiry from my perspective was not adding on a new research process. We did develop methods. We did collect data. We co designed and reinterpreted together. But those methods and everything we we did grew out of the values and the practices that were already inside the group. It wasn't about coming in with new methods. It was about designing the methods from within the culture and the approach that already existed. And that's not to say that what we're doing doesn't change things or that we're not trying to, disrupt in some cases or move forward. It just says we're starting there and we're honoring the culture that exists. When asked how to do that, how to enter in in a different way, I realized as reflecting on this the other day, I realized that I don't often ask groups what they want to know, what their questions are. Rather, I seek to identify the tensions. Now I have to say, tensions are not good or bad. They are simply where complexity shows up, where there are multiple perspectives, shifting priorities, complicated interests. We certainly know about that in in our sector. The places, though, where it's hardest to explain to people outside your location what you what you're doing, what you're up to. And as you look across your grant making, asking where are the tensions is important. You might see them coming through grantee reporting. You might hear them bubbling up in board interactions. I remember a lot coming up around a grant docket. You might hear it amongst staff, even in planning meetings or just in day to day conversation. But those tensions are the entry points for research. They are the connections, and this is important, that can align knowledge building with your grant making. So with that, I'm gonna take a breath in the sip of water and see where we are with another poll, about what is the biggest challenge when that you experience when it comes to demonstrating impact from your grant making. Great. So telling a cohesive story, visualizing visualizing data. There's some some good specific resources about that out there. Gathering data from multiple sources. So I'll be curious to to know if that's that's kinda differentiating or that there's not those multiple sources out there. But, certainly, this is one of the areas where AI, where things around time and just the amount of time we have to do this work, come through in kind of that multiple sources. How do we get all the, information to change into data that we need to have a holistic picture? Okay. Thank you very much for that. So a little bit on mapping, and sometimes I use that that term and, it's not it's not always clear, kind of common to me. But, anytime we're kind of laying out, trying to, you know, whether that's visually or, filing and organizing, I talk about that as mapping. And I start almost every project now with what I labeled the knowledge opportunity scan. And that looks different depending on the organization. But the central idea is that we are never starting with a blank page. I'm gonna say that again. But we are really looking to the current approach to tell us a lot. Right? So if we look at what we're already doing, we can find out what the important questions are, even if they're not articulated, or they are hidden inside our process. When we do kind of an opportunity scan, when I do that with with partners, I look for communication paths. So what are the what are the ways that information is being shared? I look at relationships, and we always ask who are the current where are the current relationships? Where are the relationships that need to be? You know, the people who aren't currently at the table that we wanna have relationships with in the work. And we also determine in that process kind of the places that are most open to knowledge building. Right? Because it doesn't this isn't about every minute of every day kind of making sure that you're documenting everything that you're doing. But there are key kind of events, opportunities where we can open up a knowledge process. So I worked over the course of about nine months or so with an arts intermediary team. And it was exciting because it included a board member, the executive director, a community engagement lead, and and marketing staff. So it was a small organization, but the, the team came from across the organization. And we looked at what they were already collecting. And this will sound probably familiar to you. What they were collecting. Right? So they were finding information from surveys, event registrations, their CRM, right, their various spreadsheets, past writings, and I think they also, if I remember correctly, had a small grants offering. So a small grants program as an intermediary. So there was some information that was kind of bubbling up there. And with map when we mapped all that out and organized it, what happened was they were able to, together, kind of prioritize what their four areas of questioning were. And that led to both looking at existing data that they had collected, but also determining what specific data, what indicators would be helpful moving forward. And that, I believe, in the history of the organization, it was the first time that they got to that clarity, that prioritizing. And in the kind of what was overwhelming about all the information that they were gathering, once they prioritize, they could make the linkage. Right? And together, kind of interpret what those most important aspects were. So in doing that, we were looking for what I call and is common in in qualitative research, kind of naturally occurring spaces, processes, opportunities for exchange. And it's also where data can be collected. Right? And how and where knowledge building could inform their work. So those naturally occurring, opportunities. So I don't have time to go into more details here, but it does relate back to the poll and kind of that multiple sources. Because one of the things that we also did in the process in that project with that team was we started to talk about single data points, multiple data points, and how we could layer data, for the most useful analysis. Again, that could be a whole session itself, but just the notion of, as you all have pointed out, that multiple sources are really important to, you know, to making decisions, to interpreting, to telling stories, in in accurate ways, and that are most helpful. I'll go back to being actionable. Right? So I wanna get to the idea of partnerships because this is a place I actually get a lot of questions from both grantmakers and grantees, nonprofits, community organizations. And I mentioned earlier that knowledge building is often not about big data. Right? So we might be familiar with tapping into, research partnerships for, again, census data or, you know, health indicators, some of those, like, larger data projects. But I've worked within and with universities for a while now, and I was an academic myself for a minute. Now an independent scholar, and I chair a statewide group that is really exciting because we bring grantmakers and researchers together in the same conversation about knowledge. And I know from myself and also from colleagues that we need each other to do the important work inside and outside our organizations and with our communities. So one of the things that I find when in this conversation is that folks don't always know either what they can contribute that's of value and also what they can get, especially from, you know, we have kind of philanthropy can be a very institutional, universities are very institutional. How do we actually access what's valuable from both? So I wanna note, scholars can bring experience and methods, of course. They can help us really design methods. Also, they have background in specific issue areas and specific disciplines. And again, there's a resource, a blog actually connected to this webinar that goes into that a little bit more deeply. They also have kind of different connections than grant makers may have, to stakeholders locally, regionally, nationally, and can sometimes be connected to policy and advocacy work in ways that that we may not be. Grant makers can bring actually more than just funds. It's not just about grants. We don't always recognize how much we can offer. So when I was thinking about this, you know, grantmakers have a lot of unused data from grantees, from other other ways that they, gather data, and reports and the like. And there's there's significant talk in the field about how to make that manageable, not burden grantees, and really how to make sense out of it. So that's something that, that scholars might appreciate is that data. Grantmakers tend to have software platforms. Right? We're, of course, we're we're being sponsored by one here in this conversation. But CRMs, grants management systems, that's full data. And, also, one that's just come up for me recently is that can help in automating data collection. So researchers don't always have access to that technology, and that makes, you know, research processes more difficult when you don't have that. So there's you know, I encourage being, like, creative and what we're when we're thinking about kind of what grantmakers can can offer that we just take for for granted in our day to day. Grantmakers also tend to have sustained attention to particular issue areas, and researchers appreciate sustained focus. And even something that may seem as practical, to us is, like, the dashboards we create for board meetings or for, you know, staff planning, that those may have value to understandings of a particular issue when placed alongside, you know, what researchers have in their studies and in literature. So if we're talking about maximizing the value of what is already in our systems, partnering can have a huge impact and contribute to that uncovering that I'm talking about. You know, uncovering what might be hidden and can be very important to the work of, well, the notion of grant making effectiveness and the work of change that the sector is ultimately about. Okay. So I wanna do just a quick check on time. I wanna share this, but I'm not going to so I still have a few slides to get to. Not gonna read through it. I'll leave it up for just a little bit. But the notion of everything that I've already shared can also be, conveyed. And this might be useful in sharing with with colleagues or in your organizations, into a simple kind of myths and truths. You know, what are the things like about rigor, about, the most important foundation research and topics? What are the myths that we have? The things that we already kind of just assume? And what are some truths that are relevant to our context today in a quickly changing complex, technologically, rich area or context time? And then importantly, what are some of the actions, that we can take? So, again, I'm not gonna go through all of this. There is, the blog that, connects and, the tip sheet importantly. Again, that was intended to be potentially shared with colleagues, in an action oriented way. Okay. So I shared earlier that there's a fifth a fifth element, if you will, a fifth aspect. And that one is kind of the overarching notion excuse me. I need water. Hold on. So that one is about grounding or testing out the waters. And it relates to kind of the strategy, the data processes, knowledge building in whatever form it takes for your particular organization, and grant grant making focus and approach. So, ultimately, knowledge building is always about shared meaning. When we ground the work, we're being clear about who is involved in the research process, all the way from deciding what questions and data are important to how we interpret the data and what it says about how we're using it. Right? So we tend to think about we can tend to think about methods. I hope that this is changing, but we have thought about methods as something as that's set in stone. Right? That those people in the universities, the authority figures that they create, and it's outside of ourselves. But when we ground, we are noting that methods actually emerge from values and relationships and a lot can align with our grant making approach. Grounding brings us back to that trustworthiness and recognizes that our knowledge building is effective only through engagement with lived experience. And, again, that's another whole session itself around lived experience and working with lived experience. But grounding, we kinda we're seeing the that whatever data processes there are, they need to lead to understandings that ring true. Right? And I'm I'm nodding. Right? So ring true with those that are involved and the that the understandings are strongest when they're actionable. So, when we're saying things and and people are connecting or even when they're being challenged, but it's challenged in a way that's resonating. That's what we talk about when we're grounding, the work that we're doing. So it's embracing the knowledge that knowledge emerges through action, and that knowledge really is about putting things into action. Right? So when we have deeper understandings and that changes the way we do things. So here's where I will mention. Again, I said I'm a a skeptic in many ways and just being cautious about how much we or how we talk about AI. Right? And I wanna note here, though, that it's presented a whole new context for all of us. Right? And at the same time, notions of trustworthiness and that grounding and lived experience are even more important now with AI because, again, we can have so much coming at us and coming at us in ways that it seems that it's true. Right? The it seems that the interpretation has already been done. But those are the times we need to ask who was involved in that interpreting. Right? And go again, goes back to to trustworthiness and paying attention to that. Okay. One last poll. Just checking in right now with in the context of all that we've that I've shared, kind of what do you think would most improve? What are you sensing would most improve your ability to transform your data into trustworthy knowledge assets? So a little bit across the board here. Certainly, data visualizations, probably a little less on data collection, and I suspect I'm just gonna post that that's because we've done a lot of that actually in the last few years in philanthropy. There was a time way back when that we weren't using data that much, but now we seem to be collecting more and more. So we probably have a good handle on how to do that. But then how do yeah. This I'm just processing now. The data analysis. I was in conversation a week ago or so about how we have it the sector really talked much about how we do the analysis and then, of course, how technology, how our systems can help us in doing that. So great. Great. Thank you for for sharing that kind of pulse check there. Okay. So just to have a visual of our recap, you know, reframing knowledge building, talking about rigor and trustworthiness, aligning with our current grant making approach, not starting something new, but, being where starting where we are and going forward, diving deeply kind of into your current activities, relationships to map out, kinda to help you see priority questions and even the questions that may be hidden in what we're already musing about. Partnering when needed to both strengthen foundation practices and to support scholars in sustaining, right, supporting scholars themselves and having those partnerships and resources to sustain a focus on a particular issue area. And then grounding, testing the water to make sure that all of these and and your overall knowledge strategy, stay connected to the importance of lived experience and the relationships with people that we're working with. Okay. So I'm going to get to what I always find most exciting, selfishly, and that's, Nicole's gonna help us go through kind of, what some questions are that have been coming up. Yes. Absolutely. Thanks, Angela. I so we only have one question so far that came in. But if if anyone maybe didn't have a chance to put their question in, there's still time if you wanna throw it in there right now. So Carrie asked hold on. Let me see if I can and I don't have the option to share it. So Carrie asked what recommendations do you have to make sure you are transparent with your knowledge processes, especially if you are collecting data from your broader community? So it's really about transparency and how you can, make sure you're doing that while you're collecting the data. Yep. So I think the starting point with that is to make sure you're clear with yourself. Right? So sometimes we jump into things because for various reasons. The pressures, opportunities that are coming up. But to really take that time to sit down and say, okay. Who am I collecting data from? How am I doing it? Why am I doing that way it that way? Are there other ways that I can be doing that, that maybe include more voices, that put less burden on my colleagues and grantees? So kind of having that that first, and it's really helpful to have a thought partner in that. Right? Somebody that you trust, especially because foundations are so public in what they do. Right? There's so many eyes watching foundations, to have a trusted thought partner to to not so much critique, but to surface questions for you. And then it's it's the concentric circles, being clear, with your colleagues about how you're doing that. And most importantly, from my perspective, is in every engagement with people, communities, organizations that you're gathering information from, gathering data from, to ask to make sure that you're telling them the the what, the how, the why, and how you're gonna be interpreting it. Like that in my work with community groups, there's a lot of fear around that that they're going to share something, and I've seen it happen. You know, we've we've seen it happens. We know it happens. We see it happen happening where somebody's gonna share part of their lived experience and somebody that's in a totally different location, you know, race, class, gender, whatever whatever that is, will interpret it differently. And foundations then often are in a power position to promote their interpretation rather than the people that they're they're working with or talking to. So I think being clear, having a thought partner, and always being opening open to listening and asking where people have questions. Right? And doing that in a non defensive way that that can be challenging sometimes. So anyway, yeah, that's, being upfront with yourself, having a thought partner, and being clear both about the inter how you're gonna interpret it and how you're gonna use it, in in every step of the way from questions to data collection to interpreting. Hope that help. Thank you for that, Carrie. No. That was very helpful. Thank you. And a little bit of a follow-up to that as well. How do you find the partners that best fit with your research goals? So if you're looking for a partner, what are some of the things you might be looking for? Right. So the one thing and I'm I'm biased here because I think in this particular work, engagement is really important. So I would say you wanna look whether it's a university researcher, an independent scholar, a nonprofit, you know, if you're involved in data work. So wherever you're looking, I would say look for the a person and the people who are doing engaged research, sometimes called community engaged research, some participatory research. I think we want in the grant grant making space, we want the people who are really, again, focusing on action. Right? And, and engaging with people as partners and collaborators in the knowledge process. So those are some keywords you can look for. And and I'm certainly happy to, you know, connect me outside of this, to help with some of that language that you might I've had the opportunity to to bring together a scholar community. So I spent a lot of time here in the state of Connecticut looking at all the profiles of researchers and looking for those keywords. The other thing and I'm just starting. Hopefully, I'll release, some tools around this, but, looking at people's disciplines. So scholars come into their work through, you know, sociology, political science, anthropology. There are different disciplines in how they enter through the work, and that helps. That kind of guides the types of questions and sometimes the methods, but more so the questions that they're interested in. And you wanna make sure that that that disciplinary kind of perspective is aligned with the work that you're doing. So those are some of the things. And once you know, again, I think the trusted partner is important because universities and kind of research is a different world and grant making is a different world. So finding those bridges, is really important. Awesome. Great advice there. Thanks, Angela. And we looks like we just have one more. So what recommendations do you have for balancing research and knowledge documentation while also executing grant making? What advice do you have for dedicating time to continuous process improvement when there is not one dedicated person on your team focused on that? So a bit of a two questions in one. Time is a big one. And I can tell you when I even as a dedicated person within the knowledge development role, when you recognize that it has to be engaged when you come from that perspective, it is really hard to pull people into spaces where they can be involved. And then, you know, as came up in the question, often there isn't a dedicated person, or a dedicated budget or a dedicated anything around this. So I think one is to be I think this is where strategy comes in. Right? And that kind of opportunity scanning to be really, to to be realistic about what can be done and to know that that's not one, it can't fall on an individual person to do everything because we need to be in a shared in a shared process. So, I was always I always tried to be very clear about when I whenever I proposed a space or a conversation about how much of my colleague's time it would take, about how much of our grantee partners' time it would take just to be in the space to have the conversation. Right? So being realistic about that. And, certainly, when you are working with, grantee partners or communities and residents in an area, you wanna you wanna compensate for that time. So include that, when there is a budget, include that in the budget, for that. But I think I think the more we learn about the specific opportunities and how to interpret, how to bring things together, certainly, you know, when we can tap into our technology partners to help us in automating and capturing and kind of, you know, those things that we don't have to be spending time on because we have that as a resource. But it it is about being realistic and having that strategy so that, again, you're not in all the information that you're being really targeted. Yeah. And being realistic. And I do think that that we're moving in a way that, more organ more foundations are recognizing the importance of this work. So hopefully, we're gonna be able to, you know, carve out a little bit more time to do that and recognize that the time you put in upfront in the design saves you time later. So, trying to really, again, be strategic and design focused in in what we're doing. Awesome. So that's all we have for questions. Looks like we have about eight minutes left. Angela, did you wanna is there anything else you wanted to go over before we sort of wrap up here? Yeah. I do wanna just throw in one thing because it's been coming up in the news a lot lately related to some of the Ivy League universities and changes, and that has to do with the notion of overhead. So one of the questions, and I remember working a lot with some community organizations, to understand kind of university structure. And when we're looking for partnerships from within the university, and we may choose not to, you know, there's reasons to, and there's reasons not to. But when if we are, that notion of overhead, I can tell you that when I was when I had a budget, to work with scholars, I don't believe I that we ever once provided overhead and a budget for overhead. And one of the reasons was we were focusing specifically on social research and social change and not those big data kind of big data studies and also not like medical lab work where you do definitely need to cover the cost of that. In social the social science research and qualitative research, you often don't need to provide it as overhead. But we do and I I've never had a university say no, that they they weren't gonna take a grant because it didn't include overhead. But it's about being really specific about where the where the points of need are, like in, compensating, community members for participating in a focus group. Or, data collection just tends to be very heavy in terms of time. So, providing resource resources for researchers in that time. So I just if you're really talking about partnerships, it's just really important to talk to your partners and see what is most of value in their context. So for some, you're offering kind of what they call a buyout of a course so that they have time. For some, it's graduate student time. So really be in partnership and not go in with the notion of, oh my, you know, my stars. I'm going to have to provide this, you know, 40% overhead, and that's gonna make it prohibitive. So that's just something I wanted to touch on. There's a lot more with working with universities, but that tends to be a big one that comes up. Yeah. No. I love that you tied in sort of what's, you know, the political space and what's happening right now. Awesome. So thank you so much, Angela. I think I just have one more slide here to go. So you can connect with Angela on kdokd2change.com. You can also connect with her on LinkedIn as well. Here her the URL to connect with her on LinkedIn is right there or you can just search up her name. It'll probably come up. And if you want to learn anything else about this topic, we have a lot of great content that our wonderful team here at Blackbaud has been working on along the same line. So feel free to check out, our engage blogs, any white papers we have in tip sheets as well. And some of those are linked in the docs tab, so don't forget to check that out. And I just did wanna address, we got a question on getting the slides. And when the recording is sent over, you will see, in that resources tab, we will have the slides available for you to download as well. So again, thank you so much, Angela for joining. I think that was a great presentation. I I know I learned a lot. So, always great to have you on here, and that's all. Have a Thank you. A good one, everyone. Thanks, Angela. Bye. Bye.